4 Philosophical questions to make your brain hurt

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R

Sicc OG
Dec 7, 2005
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#1
Was reading this and found it interesting so thought I'd share it on the siccness...



1. SHOULD WE KILL HEALTHY PEOPLE FOR THEIR ORGANS?
Suppose Bill is a healthy man without family or loved ones. Would it be ok painlessly to kill him if his organs would save five people, one of whom needs a heart, another a kidney, and so on? If not, why not?

Consider another case: you and six others are kidnapped, and the kidnapper somehow persuades you that if you shoot dead one of the other hostages, he will set the remaining five free, whereas if you do not, he will shoot all six. (Either way, he'll release you.)

If in this case you should kill one to save five, why not in the previous, organs case? If in this case too you have qualms, consider yet another: you're in the cab of a runaway tram and see five people tied to the track ahead. You have the option of sending the tram on to the track forking off to the left, on which only one person is tied. Surely you should send the tram left, killing one to save five.

But then why not kill Bill?


2. YOU ARE NOT THE PERSON WHO STARTED READING THIS ARTICLE
Consider a photo of someone you think is you eight years ago. What makes that person you? You might say he she was composed of the same cells as you now. But most of your cells are replaced every seven years. You might instead say you're an organism, a particular human being, and that organisms can survive cell replacement - this oak being the same tree as the sapling I planted last year.

But are you really an entire human being? If surgeons swapped George Bush's brain for yours, surely the Bush look-alike, recovering from the operation in the White House, would be you. Hence it is tempting to say that you are a human brain, not a human being.

But why the brain and not the spleen? Presumably because the brain supports your mental states, eg your hopes, fears, beliefs, values, and memories. But then it looks like it's actually those mental states that count, not the brain supporting them. So the view is that even if the surgeons didn't implant your brain in Bush's skull, but merely scanned it, wiped it, and then imprinted its states on to Bush's pre-wiped brain, the Bush look-alike recovering in the White House would again be you.

But the view faces a problem: what if surgeons imprinted your mental states on two pre-wiped brains: George Bush's and Gordon Brown's? Would you be in the White House or in Downing Street? There's nothing on which to base a sensible choice. Yet one person cannot be in two places at once.

In the end, then, no attempt to make sense of your continued existence over time works. You are not the person who started reading this article.


3. IS THAT REALLY A COMPUTER SCREEN IN FRONT OF YOU?
What reason do you have to believe there's a computer screen in front of you? Presumably that you see it, or seem to. But our senses occasionally mislead us. A straight stick half-submerged in water sometimes look bent; two equally long lines sometimes look different lengths.
But this, you might reply, doesn't show that the senses cannot provide good reasons for beliefs about the world. By analogy, even an imperfect barometer can give you good reason to believe it's about to rain.

Before relying on the barometer, after all, you might independently check it by going outside to see whether it tends to rain when the barometer indicates that it will. You establish that the barometer is right 99% of the time. After that, surely, it's readings can be good reasons to believe it will rain.

Perhaps so, but the analogy fails. For you cannot independently check your senses. You cannot jump outside of the experiences they provide to check they're generally reliable. So your senses give you no reason at all to believe that there is a computer screen in front of you."


4. YOU DID NOT FREELY AND RESPONSIBLY CHOOSE TO READ THIS ARTICLE
Suppose that Fred existed shortly after the Big Bang. He had unlimited intelligence and memory, and knew all the scientific laws governing the universe and all the properties of every particle that then existed. Thus equipped, billions of years ago, he could have worked out that, eventually, planet Earth would come to exist, that you would too, and that right now you would be reading this article.

After all, even back then he could have worked out all the facts about the location and state of every particle that now exists.

And once those facts are fixed, so is the fact that you are now reading this article. No one's denying you chose to read this. But your choice had causes (certain events in your brain, for example), which in turn had causes, and so on right back to the Big Bang. So your reading this was predictable by Fred long before you existed. Once you came along, it was already far too late for you to do anything about it.

Now, of course, Fred didn't really exist, so he didn't really predict your every move. But the point is: he could have. You might object that modern physics tells us that there is a certain amount of fundamental randomness in the universe, and that this would have upset Fred's predictions. But is this reassuring? Notice that, in ordinary life, it is precisely when people act unpredictably that we sometimes question whether they have acted freely and responsibly. So freewill begins to look incompatible both with causal determination and with randomness. None of us, then, ever do anything freely and responsibly."


Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7739493.stm
 
Jul 3, 2005
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#3
1. why does this question assume everyone is going to kill one to save five?

2. my conciousness makes sense of my continued existence, the overall experience of the moment. and if they imprinted my mental states into two different persons then we'd still have two different experiences, like twins.

3. although we see the stick bent we can feel that it isn't, you can't rely on one single sense which is why we have more than one i can close my eyes and the screen will disappear but i can reach out my hand and touch it.

4. it's possible to predict where the particles may be in space and time but not that i would be reading this i could be doing something else i mean what if i was a moving chair or that i would be named what i was named. we don't act unpredictably that would be other's perception of your act the only time a person can act unpredictably is when the ego does not know that you acted unpredictably like blacking out on drugs and doin shityou don't remember
define responsibly?

well that's what i think.
 
Jan 31, 2008
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#4
1. In the end its up to the one being killed to save others.

2. I am neither body nor mind, so that question doesnt apply to me.

3. the current reality most of us live in is subjective and based on symbolism. Concepts such as "computer screen" become "mental objects".

4. This in the end depends on what your stance is on Freewill. Because in the end this article was written by a man.
 
Dec 18, 2002
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#8
1. No
2. No I'm not
3. I trust my senses enough to wipe my own ass, therefore I trust them enough to tell me that there is in fact a computer monitor in front of me.
4. Only if I agree with Fred, which is just a clever name for God.
 
Jan 31, 2008
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#9
3. I trust my senses enough to wipe my own ass, therefore I trust them enough to tell me that there is in fact a computer monitor in front of me.
so is the computer monitor a computer monitor or is it a bunch of pixels and I/O ?
dig even deeper, is it solid or is it 99.99999% space?
dig even deeper, if you were traveling at the speed of light, would the space that it occupies as a monitor be the same?

you can say that only relative to your current perception, velocity, how macro/micro your vision is, is the monitor a monitor.
but the question remains, is that the absolute reality if it is dictated by circumstances?


this relates to the mind and body question. Body and mind are always changing, lessons being learned, cells grown, but in the end the individual that i am has always been the same. What isnt changeless isnt absolute.
 
Nov 24, 2003
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#10
so is the computer monitor a computer monitor or is it a bunch of pixels and I/O ?
dig even deeper, is it solid or is it 99.99999% space?
dig even deeper, if you were traveling at the speed of light, would the space that it occupies as a monitor be the same?

you can say that only relative to your current perception, velocity, how macro/micro your vision is, is the monitor a monitor.
but the question remains, is that the absolute reality if it is dictated by circumstances?


Dig even deeper, what if we are all butterflies dreaming of being humans? Then what is the monitor in front of us?
 
Feb 17, 2006
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#14
lol... number 1 just creates a progressive vaccuum that forces a choice but that does not make the end apply to the beginning.

these are pretty shitty threads of logic, the last 2 sentences are spent making a statement when it isnt even fully warranted...