A Dying Rap Game
- Thread starter Gemini
- Start date
No it's not dead when artists like Future and Young Thug are considered the hot artist. That just means you -personally- don't enjoy it.
No duh? Over course an established artist still has advantages over an underground artist. Does that mean an underground artist still can't be successful? No it doesn't. Once again it's how it's always been since day one in rap music. Jay Z always made more money than Brotha Lynch Hung, but did that mean Brotha Lynch Hung wasn't successful? Now it's youtube clicks and itunes sales instead of record sales. Of course Kanye West is going to have more, but that doesn't mean Underground Artist X can't make a decent pay check and still fill up some venues on a tour.
This paragraph seemed like random rambling that I'm not sure you even know where you were going with this. But let me give you an example of how creating a buzz on the web has worked.
I live in Phoenix, AZ. There's a group from New York called Flatbush Zombies, definitely not a mainstream group in any way shape or form. Next month Flatbush Zombies is playing here in Phoenix in a 3,000 seat venue, not a tiny night club in front of 100 people, a 3,000 seat venue. Flatbush Zombies don't have a major label behind them. This same group's music videos have millions of views each, which = $$$ from google ad revenue, which also points people at their full albums on itunes.
There are dozens of acts right now that are underground that are blowing up on a national and even worldwide level. This shit was never happening in the past like this.
Sounds like another "I -personally- don't enjoy the music, so it's dead" quote.
Fact is rap is more alive then it's ever been.
No duh? Over course an established artist still has advantages over an underground artist. Does that mean an underground artist still can't be successful? No it doesn't. Once again it's how it's always been since day one in rap music. Jay Z always made more money than Brotha Lynch Hung, but did that mean Brotha Lynch Hung wasn't successful? Now it's youtube clicks and itunes sales instead of record sales. Of course Kanye West is going to have more, but that doesn't mean Underground Artist X can't make a decent pay check and still fill up some venues on a tour.
This paragraph seemed like random rambling that I'm not sure you even know where you were going with this. But let me give you an example of how creating a buzz on the web has worked.
I live in Phoenix, AZ. There's a group from New York called Flatbush Zombies, definitely not a mainstream group in any way shape or form. Next month Flatbush Zombies is playing here in Phoenix in a 3,000 seat venue, not a tiny night club in front of 100 people, a 3,000 seat venue. Flatbush Zombies don't have a major label behind them. This same group's music videos have millions of views each, which = $$$ from google ad revenue, which also points people at their full albums on itunes.
There are dozens of acts right now that are underground that are blowing up on a national and even worldwide level. This shit was never happening in the past like this.
Sounds like another "I -personally- don't enjoy the music, so it's dead" quote.
Fact is rap is more alive then it's ever been.
If you only look at record sales. Which record sales are no longer the standard in the music industry. Just like TV ratings are no longer the standard in television, etc.
Now is the only time in history a completely independent underground rapper can blow up on a worldwide scale, get paid, go on world tours that doesn't comprise of doing clubs in front of 20 people etc.
10 years ago, 20 years ago, would a completely independent rapper with zero major label backing be able to do 2000 seat venues and make 7 figures from music videos?
Underground rappers when rap was supposedly "alive" would be doing regional shows in front of a couple dozen people and making peanuts off of their 1,500 album sales lol
Now is the only time in history a completely independent underground rapper can blow up on a worldwide scale, get paid, go on world tours that doesn't comprise of doing clubs in front of 20 people etc.
10 years ago, 20 years ago, would a completely independent rapper with zero major label backing be able to do 2000 seat venues and make 7 figures from music videos?
Underground rappers when rap was supposedly "alive" would be doing regional shows in front of a couple dozen people and making peanuts off of their 1,500 album sales lol
You're describing the music industry in general though. Specifically rap in 2016, fucking sucks. Yes, it's easier for some shitty rapper to get more known due to the internets, but that doesn't necessarily translate to any kind of real success. In the 90s for example, when rap was at it's peak, people were getting signed to major deals making major money with actual support and backing from major labels. I'd argue underground rappers were much more financially successful then they are today.
People in the 90's getting signed to majors weren't actually making money though outside of the top 2%.
They would get an advance, blow their advance on house/cars/jewelery etc., their album sales would rarely actually cover the advance. They would end up in debt. That's basically rap history 101.
You say an underground rapper was much more financially successful then, I ask you how? A couple thousand album sales where the majority of it went to distribution and shows in front of a couple dozen people was the pinnacle of success for an underground 90's rapper outside of Brotha Lynch Hung, Esham or the likes, basically a small handful.
I've met numerous "known" underground 90's rappers that lived in one bedroom apartments and drove a hoopty.
Take a guy now days like Action Bronson, he spent years as an underground rapper and the entire time he was known worldwide because of the internet, made money because of the internet, toured Europe because of the internet and all of this was before he signed with a major. There's numerous rappers in the same situation. Like the example I gave earlier about Flatbush Zombies, they have zero major label support yet are able to cash out on the internet and tour doing 3,000 seat venues.
A 90's underground rapper couldn't do near what an underground rapper could do today.
I also keep hearing people talking about the music being "garbage" or it "fucking sucks" and shit like that, once again that's all -personal- opinion. Some of you guys sound like those old people in the 80's and 90's saying "that heavy metal or that hippity hop ain't real music, Eric Clapton is real music" lol
They would get an advance, blow their advance on house/cars/jewelery etc., their album sales would rarely actually cover the advance. They would end up in debt. That's basically rap history 101.
You say an underground rapper was much more financially successful then, I ask you how? A couple thousand album sales where the majority of it went to distribution and shows in front of a couple dozen people was the pinnacle of success for an underground 90's rapper outside of Brotha Lynch Hung, Esham or the likes, basically a small handful.
I've met numerous "known" underground 90's rappers that lived in one bedroom apartments and drove a hoopty.
Take a guy now days like Action Bronson, he spent years as an underground rapper and the entire time he was known worldwide because of the internet, made money because of the internet, toured Europe because of the internet and all of this was before he signed with a major. There's numerous rappers in the same situation. Like the example I gave earlier about Flatbush Zombies, they have zero major label support yet are able to cash out on the internet and tour doing 3,000 seat venues.
A 90's underground rapper couldn't do near what an underground rapper could do today.
I also keep hearing people talking about the music being "garbage" or it "fucking sucks" and shit like that, once again that's all -personal- opinion. Some of you guys sound like those old people in the 80's and 90's saying "that heavy metal or that hippity hop ain't real music, Eric Clapton is real music" lol
No if you look at record sales + digital sales + merchandise + tours + ad revenue (youtube) the sum of that is less today than it was in the past.
I can't find a graph that includes those things above and also merchandise, tours, etc but either way if we add those things on year by year, the distribution does not change much.
No if you look at record sales + digital sales + merchandise + tours + ad revenue (youtube) the sum of that is less today than it was in the past.
I can't find a graph that includes those things above and also merchandise, tours, etc but either way if we add those things on year by year, the distribution does not change much.
I can't find a graph that includes those things above and also merchandise, tours, etc but either way if we add those things on year by year, the distribution does not change much.
VEVO was just starting in 2011 and VEVO is a major revenue stream for major labels and artists.
The last numbers I could find for VEVO was 2013 and it netted almost a billion dollars and paid out a quarter of that to artists....
In it's first year in 2011 it paid out over $100 million to artists.
In 2016 those numbers will more than likely be larger.
Props:
timebomb and timebomb
Nowhere in this thread have I stated that more revenue is made now compared to back then. I responded to your graph stating the graph is a huge understatement about the revenue that is collected by artists.
Previous to that I stated record sales revenue is no longer a standard bearer for the music industry.
Never before has a rapper whether underground, main stream, regional, or whatever had more of an opportunity to gather revenue without the support of a major label.
In the 90's there would be a small percentage of people with a fuck ton of money. Now days it's still a small percentage with a fuck ton of money, but now we have another large percentage with at least a decent bank account and more avenues to continue adding to that bank account.
The revenue made by rap music in 2016 is a lot more distributed among a lot more people compared to 1999.
Now days I'm learning about new rappers almost every single day that are dope, back in the 90's I was either force fed a few by MTV or the radio or I would learn about a handful of rappers from one region (example The Bay and Sacramento through this website)
I have no idea how somebody can state "rap is dying".
Rap ain't dying, maybe certain individuals taste in music has stagnated and they don't like new sounds, but that definitely isn't a reason to say it's dying.
Previous to that I stated record sales revenue is no longer a standard bearer for the music industry.
Never before has a rapper whether underground, main stream, regional, or whatever had more of an opportunity to gather revenue without the support of a major label.
In the 90's there would be a small percentage of people with a fuck ton of money. Now days it's still a small percentage with a fuck ton of money, but now we have another large percentage with at least a decent bank account and more avenues to continue adding to that bank account.
The revenue made by rap music in 2016 is a lot more distributed among a lot more people compared to 1999.
Now days I'm learning about new rappers almost every single day that are dope, back in the 90's I was either force fed a few by MTV or the radio or I would learn about a handful of rappers from one region (example The Bay and Sacramento through this website)
I have no idea how somebody can state "rap is dying".
Rap ain't dying, maybe certain individuals taste in music has stagnated and they don't like new sounds, but that definitely isn't a reason to say it's dying.
I tend to agree and disagree with you on a lot of valid points. However, it's not an attack mode, it's simply an opinion. Okay, got it. I see you like the new stuff and defend it, cool. I tend to like a few of the new things here and there, but facts are, that the rap game is no longer at it's peak. It's more on a decline which is a good thing. In another year or so, the rap game will sink back down to where it came from... the underground.
In other words, the main stream ride is over. So yes, it's on a decline as far as that. Are there number one songs that we can bump for months never leaving your deck (in today's world, your iPod) like before? No, delete and on to the next.
You mention of a rap group landing a gig in a 3,000 seat venue. That's a good thing, but the question remains, how many of those seats will actually be filled? I personally know artist who have a million hits on their social media pages, but fail to sell out records and concert venues.
My paragraph which you took as random rambling means that, even though underground artist options seem endless and can be indpenedent by cutting out the middle man, corporate America will not allow that to happen for long. They'll throw a monkey wrench in the spokes at some point in time.
In other words, the main stream ride is over. So yes, it's on a decline as far as that. Are there number one songs that we can bump for months never leaving your deck (in today's world, your iPod) like before? No, delete and on to the next.
You mention of a rap group landing a gig in a 3,000 seat venue. That's a good thing, but the question remains, how many of those seats will actually be filled? I personally know artist who have a million hits on their social media pages, but fail to sell out records and concert venues.
My paragraph which you took as random rambling means that, even though underground artist options seem endless and can be indpenedent by cutting out the middle man, corporate America will not allow that to happen for long. They'll throw a monkey wrench in the spokes at some point in time.
Last edited:
Your thread title has the word dying in it. So you're saying rap is -dying- because it in your -opinion- isn't at it's peak? Now you're saying in one single year it will be completely dead? lolwut
You -personally- don't bump songs for months and delete. It's another case of your personal taste in music being your argument that a genre is dying lol
The majority of their tour is booked in theaters, not night clubs, so I would assume they book that many large venues as the headlining act they plan on filling seats. If not they would have booked a majority club tour....
You know a person that doesn't sell records or fill venues so that means nobody else can....gotcha lol
Corporate America is going to go out of it's way to stop rappers from making money off of the internet??? LMAO come on guy you seriously post some of the dumbest shit I've read on this website.
Corporate America are the ones running the shit getting these artists paid. Vevo which is paying out hundreds of millions to artists is owned by Universal Music Group. Google which is paying out artists from ad revenue is one of the largest corporations on the planet.
The fuck are you talking about? lol
You -personally- don't bump songs for months and delete. It's another case of your personal taste in music being your argument that a genre is dying lol
The majority of their tour is booked in theaters, not night clubs, so I would assume they book that many large venues as the headlining act they plan on filling seats. If not they would have booked a majority club tour....
You know a person that doesn't sell records or fill venues so that means nobody else can....gotcha lol
Corporate America is going to go out of it's way to stop rappers from making money off of the internet??? LMAO come on guy you seriously post some of the dumbest shit I've read on this website.
Corporate America are the ones running the shit getting these artists paid. Vevo which is paying out hundreds of millions to artists is owned by Universal Music Group. Google which is paying out artists from ad revenue is one of the largest corporations on the planet.
The fuck are you talking about? lol
lol nah you make some good points and you're probably right, I was talking out of my ass tbh. Maybe it seemed like underground rap was so much deeper with talent growing up.
I can get into new shit though, I don't really care too much about the generation differences for the most part (some shit is just plain gay though), I seriously think there is a lack of talent for whatever reasons. There definitely has been some dumbing down going on the past 10-15 years or so, but it's not limited to rap the entire music industry in general.