With Donaire, Rigo fought fire with fire. He sent Donaire to the hospital. Frampton has that type of power that Rigo would do the same to him, but the difference would be how Frampton would react to that? I think he would take the fall rather than get sent to the hospital. Framton would have problems with Rigo's stance alone he just won't connect and when Frampton puts his 1 out to measure Rigo, Rigo will uppercut him to the body. That's how he gets his opponents to drop their arms. framton does measure out more than he feints.
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Not sure although would be a very interesting fight if those two fought and i think Maidana could beat Bradley. But regardless Maidana is much better than Algeri and Rios so whats your point? Got Em!!
I dont have any thoughts about it. I knew Arum was the problem from the get go and Floyd was basically trying to get Manny to get out from under Arum. Like Bay Area said at one time Manny couldve gotten 50/50 so he still lost out on some loot. I just wanted the fight made as did Floyd and with Arum pimping Manny anyway he wont see all of that 80 mill lol. My question what are your thoughts about Floyd making the fight when alot of yall said he was scared and that the fight would never happen lol? See how this can go? The fight is here so talking about all the different offers and breakdowns are pointless now. Now its time to shut the Manny fans and Floyd haters up but delivering one of the greatest boxing lessons of all time. Got Em!!
^^No he's not.
Hey
@CZAR
curious on your thoughts about Manny getting a min of $80 million. Remember you and others were calling Pac an idiot for not accepting a flat fee of $40 million?! He's getting a minimum of double that now.
Hey
@CZAR
curious on your thoughts about Manny getting a min of $80 million. Remember you and others were calling Pac an idiot for not accepting a flat fee of $40 million?! He's getting a minimum of double that now.
I dont have any thoughts about it. I knew Arum was the problem from the get go and Floyd was basically trying to get Manny to get out from under Arum. Like Bay Area said at one time Manny couldve gotten 50/50 so he still lost out on some loot. I just wanted the fight made as did Floyd and with Arum pimping Manny anyway he wont see all of that 80 mill lol. My question what are your thoughts about Floyd making the fight when alot of yall said he was scared and that the fight would never happen lol? See how this can go? The fight is here so talking about all the different offers and breakdowns are pointless now. Now its time to shut the Manny fans and Floyd haters up but delivering one of the greatest boxing lessons of all time. Got Em!!
The only way Cotto fights Floyd in September is if he drops the MW belt. The WBC has ordered Cotto (or whoever wins) to face GGG after his next fight.
President Mauricio Sulaiman says: ‘We have instructed Miguel that he must fight Gennady, as his mandatory challenger, next after his April fight, assuming of course that he wins."
And that was said yesterday so you can kiss Floyd making history for the belt goodbye.
President Mauricio Sulaiman says: ‘We have instructed Miguel that he must fight Gennady, as his mandatory challenger, next after his April fight, assuming of course that he wins."
And that was said yesterday so you can kiss Floyd making history for the belt goodbye.
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battle619 and battle619
LOL @ thinking the WBC who bends over backwards for Floyd and allows him to defend a belt in a weight class he's not fighting in wouldn't give Cotto a pass to fight Floyd. Also money talks and mandatories can be paid off.
Also even if they do strip Cotto of the WBC belt he'd still be the lineal champion until he either loses at MW or vacates the division. Lineage isn't tied into whatever belt it's won with, it's tied to the fighter.
Also even if they do strip Cotto of the WBC belt he'd still be the lineal champion until he either loses at MW or vacates the division. Lineage isn't tied into whatever belt it's won with, it's tied to the fighter.
Rigo was knocked down by Cordoba, Donaire, & Amagasa and Marroquin wobbled him early in their fight yet somehow Frampton isn't capable of landing a clean shot on him?
And you're saying Frampton can't deal with Rigo's power and he'd quit based on what? Your assumption that he's not as tough as Donaire? If you think Frampton is going to get beaten into quitting by Rigo I don't know what to tell you. I don't think Frampton wins but he sure as hell isn't getting steamrolled.
And you're saying Frampton can't deal with Rigo's power and he'd quit based on what? Your assumption that he's not as tough as Donaire? If you think Frampton is going to get beaten into quitting by Rigo I don't know what to tell you. I don't think Frampton wins but he sure as hell isn't getting steamrolled.
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2-0-Sixx and 2-0-Sixx
If this fight is remotely close, if it has the slightest bit of controversy, there's gonna be a rematch. Look at the money. Floyd is getting a minimum of $120 million. And there's a possibility they could do it again? Too much money to pass.
Yeah I have no faith in the WBC to do their job so they'll probably elevate Cotto to champion Emeritus or some bull shit and have GGG fight for the "regular" title. I wouldn't be shocked being this was my prediction before Cotto beats Martinez, I was saying Martinez must win or else Cotto will be defending the middleweight crown against welterweights and it would become a big joke.
Yeah I have no faith in the WBC to do their job so they'll probably elevate Cotto to champion Emeritus or some bull shit and have GGG fight for the "regular" title. I wouldn't be shocked being this was my prediction before Cotto beats Martinez, I was saying Martinez must win or else Cotto will be defending the middleweight crown against welterweights and it would become a big joke.
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The WBC is known for doing fuck shit there is no denying it. However, we haven't gotten to that point yet. However, we have gotten to the point where they have publicly stated Cotto or whoever wins.
As for him being the lineal champ, if he vacates, in the eyes of many he WONT be the limeal champ as he chose to DUCK the guy who was next. And if he doesn't have the title what use is he to Floyd? There are a couple of other fights Floyd can take that will be more lucrative. So if he drops it, due to cowardice, which is what it is, he aint a champ. And he would have to vacate the division in order to fight Floyd (assuming the WBC stay true to their word.)
In my book and in the eyes of others, if he ducks GGG he is a bitch. He already shook Canelo and now he backed himself in a corner. He might as well drop the belt now.
As for him being the lineal champ, if he vacates, in the eyes of many he WONT be the limeal champ as he chose to DUCK the guy who was next. And if he doesn't have the title what use is he to Floyd? There are a couple of other fights Floyd can take that will be more lucrative. So if he drops it, due to cowardice, which is what it is, he aint a champ. And he would have to vacate the division in order to fight Floyd (assuming the WBC stay true to their word.)
In my book and in the eyes of others, if he ducks GGG he is a bitch. He already shook Canelo and now he backed himself in a corner. He might as well drop the belt now.
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It doesn't really matter what he would be in the eyes of many. He'd still be the lineal champion until losing it in the ring or vacating the division. For years people didn't consider Erdei the real LHW champion, but he was the lineal champion until he vacated the division to jump to CW.
Casamayor was the lineal champion even after getting stripped of his titles, getting a gift decision against Santa Cruz, and not fighting Juan Diaz who at the time was considered the best fighter in the division. He only lost when he was beaten by JMM in a fight that had no official title on the line.
Our opinions of Cotto don't mean a thing when it comes to that. You can only lose it by leaving the division or losing in the ring.
Casamayor was the lineal champion even after getting stripped of his titles, getting a gift decision against Santa Cruz, and not fighting Juan Diaz who at the time was considered the best fighter in the division. He only lost when he was beaten by JMM in a fight that had no official title on the line.
Our opinions of Cotto don't mean a thing when it comes to that. You can only lose it by leaving the division or losing in the ring.
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Floyd is not going to fight Cotto at MW so Cotto will have to vacate.
Floyd will not get a shot at that title and doesnt deserve it. Cotto needs to drop the title. He can be the man who beat the man, whatever but he needs to defend against GGG like the WBC has stated or drop the belt.
He will simply be known as the lineal champ who ducked. Shit if he has no problem with it I dont. Duck away.
Floyd will not get a shot at that title and doesnt deserve it. Cotto needs to drop the title. He can be the man who beat the man, whatever but he needs to defend against GGG like the WBC has stated or drop the belt.
He will simply be known as the lineal champ who ducked. Shit if he has no problem with it I dont. Duck away.
Is Floyd really less deserving of a shot at the lineal title than Miguel Cotto himself? Or Sergio Martinez who got a shot at the lineal title coming off a loss (albeit a close decision) in his first fight at MW after moving up?
It's easy because people dislike Cotto and Golovkin has a following as an avoided fighter. I don't remember hearing any outrage of a junior middleweight coming off a loss getting a shot at the lineal title when Pavlik took the fight against him.
At least Floyd has a claim to the lineal title in the division right under, something that Martinez surely didn't have.
It's easy because people dislike Cotto and Golovkin has a following as an avoided fighter. I don't remember hearing any outrage of a junior middleweight coming off a loss getting a shot at the lineal title when Pavlik took the fight against him.
At least Floyd has a claim to the lineal title in the division right under, something that Martinez surely didn't have.
Yes he is less deserving because of the circumstances. You have the #1 challenger in Golovkin who is by all means next in line for a crack at the title (further shown by his mandatory status). He's campaigning at middleweight and clearly putting in work by beating top ten guys, basically clearing out the division one fight at a time.
Yes the blame first goes to Martinez for fighting Cotto in the first place, but the man did put in work, obviously beat Pavlik and defended the title against other top ten middleweights at the time in Barker, Macklin and the likes.
Pavlik fighting Martinez was legit, again circumstances. You had Pavlik who beat Taylor for the crown, defended it against Taylor, eventually got beat up by Bernard Hopkins and only had the title because it was above 160, and Martinez who had a thrilling fight against Paul Williams and was being featured on HBO, made sense since he was moving up in weight (and stayed there).
Floyd obviously isn't a middleweight, has no intentions of being a middleweight, and hasn't fought at 154 in over a year. He's a welterweight who can occasionally fight at 154 against the right opponents. Obviously if he fights at middleweight against Cotto it would only be because it's Cotto.
So yeah given the circumstances Floyd isn't deserving of a crack at the lineal title. If it was for Cotto's voluntary fight, sure go for it, but since Golovkin IS mandatory and IS the #1 Middleweight challenger of the world, by all means Golovkin is by far, without question, the most deserving fighter. He's the one putting in the work, he's the one campaigning at middleweight. He's been patiently waiting for his shot for years. It's time the man gets the fight, not a welterweight at a catchweight who will only vacate. Fans shouldn't be making excuses for this mockery of the lineage. Cotto needs to either fight his mandatory or vacate his title and move back down to 154 if he has no intentions of fighting middleweights. They are talking about Cotto vs Brandon Rios or Bradley next.
Yes the blame first goes to Martinez for fighting Cotto in the first place, but the man did put in work, obviously beat Pavlik and defended the title against other top ten middleweights at the time in Barker, Macklin and the likes.
Pavlik fighting Martinez was legit, again circumstances. You had Pavlik who beat Taylor for the crown, defended it against Taylor, eventually got beat up by Bernard Hopkins and only had the title because it was above 160, and Martinez who had a thrilling fight against Paul Williams and was being featured on HBO, made sense since he was moving up in weight (and stayed there).
Floyd obviously isn't a middleweight, has no intentions of being a middleweight, and hasn't fought at 154 in over a year. He's a welterweight who can occasionally fight at 154 against the right opponents. Obviously if he fights at middleweight against Cotto it would only be because it's Cotto.
So yeah given the circumstances Floyd isn't deserving of a crack at the lineal title. If it was for Cotto's voluntary fight, sure go for it, but since Golovkin IS mandatory and IS the #1 Middleweight challenger of the world, by all means Golovkin is by far, without question, the most deserving fighter. He's the one putting in the work, he's the one campaigning at middleweight. He's been patiently waiting for his shot for years. It's time the man gets the fight, not a welterweight at a catchweight who will only vacate. Fans shouldn't be making excuses for this mockery of the lineage. Cotto needs to either fight his mandatory or vacate his title and move back down to 154 if he has no intentions of fighting middleweights. They are talking about Cotto vs Brandon Rios or Bradley next.
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HERESY and HERESY
I never said he was MORE deserving than Golovkin, but no way would it be egregious. What were the circumstances behind the same lineal title being defended against Cory Spinks & Kassim Ouma back to back?
I don't think people would as much as sneeze at a lineal champion in one division moving up and fighting for the lineal championship in another. Because it's Floyd it seems to be this ridiculous concept. I'm with you on the list that Cotto's camp put out, just not on Floyd.
Why does it really matter what his intentions are after fighting for it? Chocolatito won the flyweight lineal championship that's been running since 1975 and doesn't seem to have any intentions of remaining in the division and already took his first super flyweight fight to see how it feels. Was it ridiculous to get a shot at the lineal flyweight after having no meaningful wins at flyweight and having Estrada in the division who was a unified champion?
I don't think people would as much as sneeze at a lineal champion in one division moving up and fighting for the lineal championship in another. Because it's Floyd it seems to be this ridiculous concept. I'm with you on the list that Cotto's camp put out, just not on Floyd.
Why does it really matter what his intentions are after fighting for it? Chocolatito won the flyweight lineal championship that's been running since 1975 and doesn't seem to have any intentions of remaining in the division and already took his first super flyweight fight to see how it feels. Was it ridiculous to get a shot at the lineal flyweight after having no meaningful wins at flyweight and having Estrada in the division who was a unified champion?
Since the introduction of the junior and super weight classes it's pretty common practice for the juniors to step up, those are typically weight classes that people don't stay at their entire careers, sometimes but usually it's a stepping ground. Usually in those cases, Taylor vs Ouma, those are voluntary defenses they take, easy wins, low risk. Ouma would fight at 154-160 throughout his career, wasn't a big deal for him. Obviously Floyd doesn't campaign at 154, he campaigns at 147 and only occasionally fights at 154 (just 3 times in 8 years). There's a difference between a career 154 pounder who fights at 160 as a voluntary fight from the 160 champ, versus a 160 champ fighting a welterweight.
No way, another example is Pacquiao fighting Margarito for a vacant 154 pound belt, people really shitted on that and no one took it seriously, and that was just for a vacant title. There have been plenty of times where guys get heavily criticized for fighting smaller opponents and not defending the title against a worthy foe in the same weight class.
Because Floyd is a welterweight and has done nothing to earn a shot at the title, the ONLY reason he would possibly fight for it is because it's Cotto, a guy he already beat and isn't a true middleweight himself. It's essentially holding the crown hostage and guaranting the actual middleweights won't get an opportunity to fight for it.
Chocolatito was obviously big enough to fight at flyweight.
The main thing that is boils down to is that Golovkin is the mandatory challenger to Cotto's belt. Like I said if Cotto would have fought Mayweather for his voluntary title defense that's fine, but that has passed.
No way, another example is Pacquiao fighting Margarito for a vacant 154 pound belt, people really shitted on that and no one took it seriously, and that was just for a vacant title. There have been plenty of times where guys get heavily criticized for fighting smaller opponents and not defending the title against a worthy foe in the same weight class.
Because Floyd is a welterweight and has done nothing to earn a shot at the title, the ONLY reason he would possibly fight for it is because it's Cotto, a guy he already beat and isn't a true middleweight himself. It's essentially holding the crown hostage and guaranting the actual middleweights won't get an opportunity to fight for it.
Chocolatito was obviously big enough to fight at flyweight.
The main thing that is boils down to is that Golovkin is the mandatory challenger to Cotto's belt. Like I said if Cotto would have fought Mayweather for his voluntary title defense that's fine, but that has passed.
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What it boils down to is I want the rules to be enforced. Golovkin is mandatory to Cotto's title. Rules are rules, without them guys would never be given the opportunity they deserve. I understand that's on the WBC to enforce the rules, which of course I want, I also firmly believe if Cotto has no intention of fighting middleweights he needs to go back down. When Pacquiao won his vacant 154 title, he immediately dropped it and admitted 154 was just too big for him. The difference here is Cotto actually did beat a middleweight in Martinez, I don't consider Pacquiao to have ever been a 154 champion, it was just given to him for no reason other than being Manny Pacquiao.
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A fight between Margarito, who was just blasted out by Shane Mosley in a lower weight class and Pacquiao who had never fought in the weight class is not the same as Floyd, the lineal 154lb champion fighting the lineal 160lb champion.
Floyd not being a career 154lber doesn't make him less of a lineal champion.
I agree about Chocolatito was just using that example. I think greatness should be allowed to be great. I don't care what Floyd walks around at or his intentions or if he wouldn't fight the lineal champion if it wasn't Cotto.
And unless I'm remembering wrong Pavlik was supposed to fight Williams, who had just beat Martinez, pulled out due to injury then immediately signed to fight Martinez once Williams signed another fight. That's way more ridiculous than what we're talking about now.
Obviously I'd rather see Golovkin fight for the lineal middleweight title over Floyd, but I'm not buying that Floyd's somehow unworthy of something lesser fighters have fought for when he's the lineal champion of a division right below, regardless of circumstances.
Floyd not being a career 154lber doesn't make him less of a lineal champion.
I agree about Chocolatito was just using that example. I think greatness should be allowed to be great. I don't care what Floyd walks around at or his intentions or if he wouldn't fight the lineal champion if it wasn't Cotto.
And unless I'm remembering wrong Pavlik was supposed to fight Williams, who had just beat Martinez, pulled out due to injury then immediately signed to fight Martinez once Williams signed another fight. That's way more ridiculous than what we're talking about now.
Obviously I'd rather see Golovkin fight for the lineal middleweight title over Floyd, but I'm not buying that Floyd's somehow unworthy of something lesser fighters have fought for when he's the lineal champion of a division right below, regardless of circumstances.
It's not greatness fighting a guy you already beat at 154, at a catchweight of 155/156 and calling yourself the lineal middleweight champion. It would be greatness if Floyd fought an actual middleweight champion (Floyd is already great though, beating Cotto again one or two pounds north of what he already beat him at isn't adding to his greatness).
You see what I'm saying? What is the difference? Floyd already beat Cotto at 154, they fight again at 155 and that's some how an amazing achievement adding to his legacy? Lol come on man it's a joke.
The public statement was that Pavlik had a staff infection but it turned out he had some alcohol problems. He wasn't ducking Williams it's just the way it unraveled unfortunately. Plus most people thought Martinez beat Williams or was a draw at worst.
Would Floyd fight a real middleweight? No. He said Sergio Martinez was too big and he wasn't a middleweight. Remember that? Some of his haters took that as he was ducking Martinez at the time, which wasn't true it just meant Floyd isn't a middleweight. But he'd fight Cotto because it would be a catchweight and Cotto isn't a true middleweight. This is why. We know if Golovkin was lineal champ he wouldn't fight Golovkin. He wouldnt fight Martinez. He wouldnt fight any middleweight. Unless his name is Cotto. At 155/156. That's just trickery man, it's like bending the rules or finding a loophole.
You see what I'm saying? What is the difference? Floyd already beat Cotto at 154, they fight again at 155 and that's some how an amazing achievement adding to his legacy? Lol come on man it's a joke.
The public statement was that Pavlik had a staff infection but it turned out he had some alcohol problems. He wasn't ducking Williams it's just the way it unraveled unfortunately. Plus most people thought Martinez beat Williams or was a draw at worst.
Would Floyd fight a real middleweight? No. He said Sergio Martinez was too big and he wasn't a middleweight. Remember that? Some of his haters took that as he was ducking Martinez at the time, which wasn't true it just meant Floyd isn't a middleweight. But he'd fight Cotto because it would be a catchweight and Cotto isn't a true middleweight. This is why. We know if Golovkin was lineal champ he wouldn't fight Golovkin. He wouldnt fight Martinez. He wouldnt fight any middleweight. Unless his name is Cotto. At 155/156. That's just trickery man, it's like bending the rules or finding a loophole.
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Why would it be a big achievement then if Golovkin crushes Cotto? Because he's the lineal champion that's why. Would you be fine with Floyd fighting Cotto had he not fought him previously? Cotto went on to become the man at middleweight after losing to Mayweather, obviously it means more to fight him this time.
Floyd somehow gets discredited because he already beat him? I don't get that. Again we're not disagreeing on who we'd like to see fight each other.
I don't think Floyd/Cotto is gonna happen anyway so this is probably a pointless argument, but I just don't see as this joke or slap in the face to boxing.
I honestly don't care about Floyd's intentions after if he were to fight Cotto. Would it be a problem if he beat Cotto and retired? If he's not planning on staying at middleweight the title would go vacant and Golovkin would be able to fight the #2 guy in the division to win it, which let's be honest he's probably gonna have to do that anyway because Cotto isn't likely to fight him.
Floyd somehow gets discredited because he already beat him? I don't get that. Again we're not disagreeing on who we'd like to see fight each other.
I don't think Floyd/Cotto is gonna happen anyway so this is probably a pointless argument, but I just don't see as this joke or slap in the face to boxing.
I honestly don't care about Floyd's intentions after if he were to fight Cotto. Would it be a problem if he beat Cotto and retired? If he's not planning on staying at middleweight the title would go vacant and Golovkin would be able to fight the #2 guy in the division to win it, which let's be honest he's probably gonna have to do that anyway because Cotto isn't likely to fight him.
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