Judgement
- Thread starter Remaq
- Start date
I'm feeling like crap today so I'll respond later but a quick response to your example, yes I believe in that case they would go to hell. The only case I'm aware of Biblically (whether you believe in the Bible or not) of someone committing suicide more or less at God's instruction would've been Jesus or I guess you could argue Isaac at the hands of Abraham. In Isaac's case, Abraham was stopped beforehand because it was a test of faith. In Jesus's case, he defeated death by being resurrected on the 3rd day. The reason why I brought up the disciples and their death before is because they denied Jesus many times in the gospels and their faith was lacking many times. After seeing Jesus alive after the resurrection, they were absolutely unshaken in their faith, to the point of being martyred for their faith because they simply would not denounce their faith ever again after seeing Jesus resurrected.
I am not the judge of people's souls. I'm sure there are plenty of people that I went to church with over the years who won't enter the kingdom of heaven either. People attack the Bible more than any other book or document. More than the Torah or Quran (even though they have overlapping texts). Jesus is the polarizing figure here I guess.
I am not the judge of people's souls. I'm sure there are plenty of people that I went to church with over the years who won't enter the kingdom of heaven either. People attack the Bible more than any other book or document. More than the Torah or Quran (even though they have overlapping texts). Jesus is the polarizing figure here I guess.
I believe that God DOES exist.........It's just all this religion stuff I do not like dealing with.
You are not very wise to believe one religion over another these days. I don;t believe any religion is right and they have caused way more harm rather then good, much more negative aspect are coupled with religious groups than the positives......So I just stay away.
Me personally though I believe there is indeed a higher power out there, that we have some form of energy living on after our physical body dies and are actions in this world have some form of effect in that afterlife. I don't claim KNOWING this though, just my way of conceptualizing this craziness of a world we are all experiencing.
No one knows what is right and wrong anyways. And anyone who claims to know for certain is a fool.
You are not very wise to believe one religion over another these days. I don;t believe any religion is right and they have caused way more harm rather then good, much more negative aspect are coupled with religious groups than the positives......So I just stay away.
Me personally though I believe there is indeed a higher power out there, that we have some form of energy living on after our physical body dies and are actions in this world have some form of effect in that afterlife. I don't claim KNOWING this though, just my way of conceptualizing this craziness of a world we are all experiencing.
No one knows what is right and wrong anyways. And anyone who claims to know for certain is a fool.
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Props:
S.SAVAGE and taetae
God created man in his image right? So is God a rapist and child molester? I did Fed time in British Colombia where there are many cultures represented. I had religious debates with Afghan Muslims, Russian Jews and many Punjabi including the air India bomber who was a good friend of mine. I have learned through these experiences a lot about different religions and beliefs so I believe I can make an even more educated decision that they are all horse shit. don't get me wrong, to each their own and all that, but it's still all just fairy tales to me. on a side note, why can't we just ban the Fucktard that comes on a gangster rap message board and preaches religion. Fuck you remaq and fuck your savior. if Jesus did exist he was definitely a baby raping bitch.
Props:
Lazee Demonic
I understand your approach, but let me tell you that I would not condemn that person to hell. Nor if he was a christian extremist.
You don't have to answer this question because you might just hover around the 'im not the judge of peoples' souls" response, but would you condemn them to hell for eternity?
for the average 70 year sentence that god created them with, in the circumstances that he placed them in, with the temperaments that he created in them, would anybody send anybody to hell for eternity? can we even grasp eternity as more than just a symbolic representation of it? 70 years for eternity? Gee, thanks a lot god. He should've created me born to a christian family in bum fuck america if he wanted to at least give me a chance at finding 'truth'. But no, he just threw me in the middle of the fuckin middle east to a prominent muslim family and created all these people around me to keep me my ignorant and innocent ass in check everytime I even thought of questioning what the truth is. And then while I waste my whole 70 year existence on this shit planet believing that I am doing gods will, even as far as willing to commit suicide for his cause, he will still say 'haha u suck hell for eternity for you'.
I know it is hard to approach this question from an outer angle, like the one I am presenting to you because honestly dude, we get our identity from our environment and the circumstances that shape us. Asking you to see what I am saying directly is literally asking you to die to yourself. It is not an easy task but it is very possible.
One last question, since I (and hopefully you) would not send our hypothetical friend to hell for eternity as you claim god would, would that make me more worthy of your worship? Unlike him I wouldn't even care for it anyway.
But the answer here is: of course not, all that we can say at this point in our conclusion is that god would not send somebody to hell either. Whatever goodness you exhibit, 'he' will always one-up you. Am I right?
Take your time with the responding if you are sick as I am in no hurry and feel somewhat bad for what I am doing because I know exactly what is at stake here for you.
I understand that our identity is shaped by our environment, however a few people might not get the point you are trying to convey. You would be hard pressed to find a person on this planet who has not had the chance to accept Jesus Christ into their life. There are missionaries spreading the word of God in places where it is illegal and they could be killed for it. An alternate question, would be "What about past cultures who did not have the chance to be introduced to the bible or Christianity. The Olmecs, or Mayans for example. are they condemned to Hell?" They did not have the opportunity to know the Christian God or Jesus since they were not introduced to Europeans until over a thousand years after the death of Christ.
But, to get back to your point about how our environment shapes us. I know that at least some of the cultures in Central America accepted Jesus upon learning of him from the early missionaries. Only, this did not mean they rejected their old world Gods. No, instead they accepted Jesus as another God in addition to the ones they were already worshipping. Many groups took it a step further and placed Jesus's mother Mary above that of Jesus because if Jesus was so great imagine how great his birth mother must have been. You still see this today in many cultures who regard the mother Mary as a prominent religious figure and worship the image of her. Regardless, the missionaries who first introduced these cultures to Jesus were happy because the "primitives" were worshipping him. They didn't see a problem with the fact that they were still worshipping their old Gods because at least it was a step in the right direction. Should these groups be condemned for believing in this bastardized version of Christianity.
Props:
SeriouslyThug
While I understand and agree with your point, I stated my question in this exact way because I know islamically speaking, a nonmuslim will get a pass to heaven if they never heard of islam, or if they died a nonmuslim before reaching the age of puberty.
I didn't want any opportunity for loopholes in my question, and I am trying to be as universal in my questioning even though I am using christianity as an example right now.
I didn't want any opportunity for loopholes in my question, and I am trying to be as universal in my questioning even though I am using christianity as an example right now.
Props:
WXS STOMP3R and Mac Jesus
Yes, and if you happen to be part of the baptist sect or something, the chances of you finding that exact sect within that exact religion if you were born in the middle east desert is slim to none.
But all those muslims who are currently starving themselves during this month of ramadan, or pray five times a day with some getting up at sunrise just to make the sunrise prayer, no, they are doomed because even though their intention was good and they were dealing the best with what god created them in, they couldn't find themselves at your southern baptist church.
get real.
I am not saying all of this to condemn christianity or any other religion, I am approaching this from an angle that some would deem to be more christlike than god seems to be.
Obviously, somewhere along the line man has created the gods that we all know very well in his own image, in his own image at a stage of extended adolescence at that.
If this has been your crutch at making sense of the world and giving meaning to your lives then its all good. But I hope you can realize that even if you come to see that the foundation your whole existence appeared to be standing on is actually nonexistent, the meaning and 'goodness' that your life has had this whole time came from nothing but yourself and your inherent meaning and goodness.
But all those muslims who are currently starving themselves during this month of ramadan, or pray five times a day with some getting up at sunrise just to make the sunrise prayer, no, they are doomed because even though their intention was good and they were dealing the best with what god created them in, they couldn't find themselves at your southern baptist church.
get real.
I am not saying all of this to condemn christianity or any other religion, I am approaching this from an angle that some would deem to be more christlike than god seems to be.
Obviously, somewhere along the line man has created the gods that we all know very well in his own image, in his own image at a stage of extended adolescence at that.
If this has been your crutch at making sense of the world and giving meaning to your lives then its all good. But I hope you can realize that even if you come to see that the foundation your whole existence appeared to be standing on is actually nonexistent, the meaning and 'goodness' that your life has had this whole time came from nothing but yourself and your inherent meaning and goodness.
Props:
Lazee Demonic and Mac Jesus
@Remaq
It seems that no one else is telling you that some of the things Jesus says and some of the things he stands for are so crude, it hurts to think about them. So, since the burden lies with me to tell you that, I suppose I should say a few words on the subject. To begin with, Jesus cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures. He sees such gestures as a sign of weakness on our part and is thereby encouraged to continue weakening our mental and moral fiber. He may undermine the intellectual purpose of higher education right after he reads this letter. Let him. One of these days, I will develop a rational-empirical base for dialogue about Jesus's stratagems.
