PermaCulture

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Mar 8, 2006
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#1
For those that don't know what PermaCulture is...

Permaculture is sustainable land use design. This is based on ecological and biological principles, often using patterns that occur in nature to maximise effect while minimizing wasted energy. Permaculture aims to create stable, productive systems that provide for human needs, harmoniously integrating the land with its inhabitants. The ecological processes of plants, animals, their nutrient cycles, climatic factors and weather cycles are all part of the picture. Inhabitants’ needs are provided for using proven technologies for food, energy, shelter and infrastructure. Elements in a system are viewed in relationship to other elements, where the outputs of one element become the inputs of another. Within a Permaculture system, work is minimised, "wastes" become resources, productivity and yields increase, and environments are restored. Permaculture principles can be applied to any environment, at any scale from dense urban settlements to individual homes, from farms to entire regions.
It is "lazy farming"...you basically plant a forest of food, integrate beneficial plants and animals who produce food for each other. A minimal amount of work produces a surplus.

The whole concept pretty much turns our current paradigm of petro-based monoculture on it's head. This method works anywhere in the world, including the desert, as the designs are created specifically for climate zones/landscapes.

This guy Geoff Lawton built a food forest on his property back in the late 90's...acres of fruit, vegetables, nuts, legumes, fish ponds, etc. He walked away from it for 7 years and let it "grow up" without any maintenance at all. When he returned after 7 years, he found that the ecosystem he created had perpetuated unhindered the entire time. He said 2 people with sharp machetes could work the forest for one or two days and return in to it's original level of accessibility (it was growing rampant) and productivity (meaning you would have space to walk through and reap your harvest without wasting energy).

I find it reassuring that regular people can relatively easily become self reliant, productive, and to a certain extent truly free from market conditions/commodity prices and other external factors. I think our current petro-based system is doomed for failure...it's all propped up by subsidies and pollutes on massive scale.

Here's a video that shows 7 different food forests after each stage of growth in years 1-7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG_vRG66wkA

Here's a 80 or so minutes long in-depth look at the processes and concepts behind it all (in 9 parts).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMQ8eSm92xQ


I'm on it.
 
Mar 8, 2006
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#5
what kinds of animals will i need for this?
What animals do you want? All you have to do is account for their needs and waste. Most of the waste in these set ups becomes food for some other part of the system, with efficiency being the overall goal. Minimum input, maximum yield.

The forest itself also attracts other animals naturally.
 
Mar 8, 2006
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#7
permaculture is the shit...no doubt.

old knowledge combined with modern ecological understanding

now try and find some people not just talking about it but doing it...
I fully intend on buying some land and doing this. I figure by the time I really have a full understanding, I should have my land and be ready to do it all myself. Already researching tree and plant species for my climate zone and shopping for land.

My brother grows his own mushrooms for food, not recreation.
 
Mar 8, 2006
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#8
permaculture is the shit...no doubt.

old knowledge combined with modern ecological understanding

now try and find some people not just talking about it but doing it...
Just found a guy 20 minutes from where I'm located who is doing this. Lives in a solar cabin with plant beds, food forest, lake, wild life, etc. I am going to go down there and take some pictures and chop it up with him later this summer. This will be beneficial for me, because he has pretty much the exact same environment I will have in terms of climate, soil conditions, water conditions, sunlight, rainfall, etc.
 

50cal

Sicc OG
Apr 12, 2005
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#9
I did some research on sustainability and I watched a documentary on Food. The focus was on increase demand for food and decreasing yields in some locations crop outputs. They went to India where many countries in Europe import food from.They showed in Punjab where water tables have lowered making farmers have to drill deeper wells which increases I believe in some cases salinization, also years of fertlizers and pesticides have reduced crop outputs...so demand increases but supply is reduced increasing costs for food. They then showed a segment on Cuba where food is rationed and the people have what may be said a humble diet. Some farmers are increasing crop yields by planting crops within crops.( a Row of corn and in between each row a row of carrots...I'm not sure which foods..but use this as an example) This technique reduces the amount of water needed per acre, increasing the yield per acre. I also believe it reduces or makes it where there is no need for fertilizers. The only draw back is you can not use machines because of there is no room and must all be done by hand. I guess the plus side is this provides more employment opportunities and reduces waste of non-renewable energy sources the machines use.
 
May 14, 2002
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#11
300 year old Vietnamese food forest...
It seems all pretty interesting and low maintenance once it has been set up. But it seems you'll need a lot of knowledge and experience on a lot of things though.
But there is a lot of info available.
It would be nice to set one up.

I might even check this one out in Vietnam in a few weeks, if I can find it. Got my visa yesterday.
 
Mar 8, 2006
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#12
It seems all pretty interesting and low maintenance once it has been set up. But it seems you'll need a lot of knowledge and experience on a lot of things though.
But there is a lot of info available.
It would be nice to set one up.

I might even check this one out in Vietnam in a few weeks, if I can find it. Got my visa yesterday.
There is a lot of info available.

I've read about this extensively, and I still have a lot of questions. Looking forward to working out all those problems, in the dirt!

The good news is, the folks who employ these methods (outside of the few commercial guys who get most of the limelight) are generally more than willing to lend some knowledge when necessary, if not physically helping.
 
May 14, 2002
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#13
I saw that there is a lot of info indeed.
It's interesting and I would like to read up when I get the time.
Any idea when you start planting?
 
Mar 8, 2006
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#14
I saw that there is a lot of info indeed.
It's interesting and I would like to read up when I get the time.
Any idea when you start planting?
I think a big part of making this work is planning, like moving the dirt to control runoff and water would be based on the topography of your land...plant selection based on climate zone and indigenous species, etc. The basics are basic, but there are many variables, not the least of which is what do you personally want growing in there and how much.

Don't forget to try to visit that food forest if you still have a chance to. It would be really awesome to see pics and and get a personal account from another user from a place like this!
 
May 14, 2002
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#15
I'll try to find it! I'm in Hanoi now. I am trying to cop a bike here to drive to Ho Chi Min. I was thinking about a Honda (manual) scooter. But why a scooter if you can buy a Minsk?? Haha will be good fun!

I hope I can find it and post some photos and get some info out of the people working there. Would be great indeed!
 
Props: S.SAVAGE
May 14, 2002
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#16
I think it will be nearly impossible to locate though.. he says 7 km south of Hanoi, and only names the province..
I have no clue which city he is in or which area...
 
May 14, 2002
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#18
An hour and half? Damn I don't have so much time to search like that. You have any idea where what city/town it could be?

I have to get back to Hanoi though, the motorbike I bought is a total piece of crap!!

It would be awesome yes, but the traffic here is crazy!! When people make maneuvers, enter or exit lanes they don't look! They just drive. Idiots!!! I saw some accidents here... Damn! I can post up some photos but I don't want to hijack the thread.
 
Mar 8, 2006
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#19
An hour and half? Damn I don't have so much time to search like that. You have any idea where what city/town it could be?

I have to get back to Hanoi though, the motorbike I bought is a total piece of crap!!

It would be awesome yes, but the traffic here is crazy!! When people make maneuvers, enter or exit lanes they don't look! They just drive. Idiots!!! I saw some accidents here... Damn! I can post up some photos but I don't want to hijack the thread.
Found it. It's 7 hours South of Hanoi, west of Ho Chi Minh.

Ha Tien is at 10°23′3.62″N 104°29′6.40″E, on google earth
 
May 14, 2002
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The place is called Ha Tien?
I can look on google earth later because Ho Chi Min city is in the far south and Hanoi is in the far north. They are much further apart then 7 hours, lol!

Thanks! I'll let you know if I can find the place in Ha Tien!


Edit: I found it. 7 hours south of Hanoi, lol. It's west of HCM yes. Damn near the Cambodian border! I've been close last month. But on the Cambodian side. I'm between Ha Long and Hanoi right now. I hope I've enough time to make it. I probably will extend my visa since the bike I drive now is a complete piece of shit and is not capable of making this trip. I will try to exchange it in Hanoi.