Al Bernstein talks about the Super Six Boxing Tournament
by Geoffrey Ciani - Prior to the start of the Super Six I was afforded the opportunity to have a nice chat with Showtime’s boxing analyst Al Bernstein. Now that the first round of fighting is over, I was once again afforded this same opportunity late last week. Here is what Al had to say:
Q: Al, the biggest surprise coming out of the first round of the Super Six super middleweight tournament might well have been the impressive performance by Andre Ward against tournament favorite Mikkel Kessler. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about Andre Ward and your thoughts on him at this point?
A: I think that there were a number of people, myself included, that certainly thought Andre Ward could win. A lot of people picked him outright. I don’t make picks when I announce fights. So I don’t think it’s shocking that he might have won the fight, although certainly he was an underdog and understandably, but I think what is astonishing is how he won the fight. Mikkel Kessler was almost never in the match—at all. It was a dominating performance by Andre Ward. Some of it was made possible, in my opinion, by the fact that Kessler was just very flat. He has had some inactivity issues even though he had that fight against (Gusmyr) Perdomo some months ago and he’s had I think nagging injuries that he says are fine but I don’t know that they are—but, having said that, I don’t want to take anything away from Andre Ward. He was excellent and he did exactly what he needed to do..
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He’s coming into his own as a fighter who looks like a grizzled veteran, but a grizzled veteran with youth and speed. He gives you different looks in the ring, whether it’s going on the inside and then going on the outside, whether it’s starting off with a jab or sometimes starting off with a lead left hook. He is—make no mistake about it—a rough fighter in the ring. I’m not saying that all of the clashes of the heads that he ended up having with Kessler, the butts with Kessler, were intentional. I think one of them was. Or, let’s put it this way—if it wasn’t intentional, it wasn’t exactly unintentional. But having said that, it’s not that he’s a dirty fighter, he’s a rough fighter and he will do what he needs to do in that ring, and when you put all that together it makes him a formidable person in this tournament and in the 168 pound division.
Q: With Mikkel Kessler, he was widely regarded as the favorite coming in and as you noted, he was never really in that fight against Andre Ward where, he looked more like the green inexperienced fighter in a lot of ways and Andre Ward looked a lot more like the seasoned vet in there. I’m wondering, do you think Mikkel Kessler can bounce back from this?
A: Yeah, I actually do think he can and the reason I think he can is twofold. The next fighter he gets in the tournament, Carl Forch, has a style much better suited to Kessler. Carl Froch is a straight ahead fighter whose defense is a little questionable, who can be hit, and I think Kessler is going to hit him with some punches and some big punches, and he has power, Kessler. So I think there is a good chance for Kessler to bounce back and a lot of it has to do with style, however, Kessler was criticized or commented on by the Ward camp and other that he’s such a straight forward fighter that unless you’re standing in front of him he can’t beat you, and of course, Joe Calzaghe figured that out in the second half of their fight and they said he couldn’t make any adjustments and, of course, he didn’t in the Andre Ward fight. He did not. He could not figure out a way to do it.
Now part of that is just he didn’t do the things he does well, either. When he double jabbed in that fight, it opened up options for him that he never kept using, so some of it is doing what Kessler does better but some of it is also realizing that not every fighter is exactly the same and being able to adapt at least a little bit. But he’s got Carl Froch in the second fight of the tournament and in the third round he gets either Jermain Taylor or whoever would replace Taylor if—I know there’s speculation about Taylor continuing—so depending on who that would be, that style may mesh better with him, so I wouldn’t count Kessler out in this tournament at all, but clearly this was a jarring blow to him.
Q: Now you alluded to it briefly, I’m curious, what are your thoughts on Jermain Taylor? Do you think he will stick around given that his second round match-up is slated to be against Andre Ward which would turn out, despite losing four of his last five fights, that would actually be a title fight for Taylor. Do you think he’ll stay in it for now?
A: Well, you know I said it on the beginning of the telecast of the Ward-Kessler fight that some of Jermain Taylor’s decision—and this is purely speculation on my part, I’ve not talked to anybody from their camp, I don’t know, they’ve not communicated anything that I’m aware of—some of it may hinge on having a title available, and I said, some of it may hinge on Ward’ performance in the fight. Now strangely enough, even though Andre Ward was dominant and won the fight and at moments, I think, did stun Mikkel Kessler with some punches—although to be truthful, I think he stunned him more in those clashes of heads—it’s possible you know, just possible, that Jermain Taylor is looking at that fight and saying to himself, “Well, let’s think ahead. Andre Ward fought a terrific fight, but he’s not perceived as a monstrous puncher at 168 pounds”, and Jermain Taylor may say, “I have different skill sets, let’s say, than Kessler”, although ironically, Jermain Taylor fights more like a European fighter, to be truthful. Even though he’s got good hand speed, there’s less movement, he’s an erect straight-up fighter, but he may feel like he has the skills to figure out a little bit more what Ward is doing. And then Taylor gets Kessler in the third, if I’m not mistaken, in the third fight. So maybe watching Kessler gave him hope. I don’t know. This is all speculation and I don’t know what timetable Jermain Taylor is on, but I just think we’re all waiting to see what Jermain Taylor has to say.
Q: The other very impressive performance from the first round, as noted by most observers, would be Arthur Abraham’s impressive twelfth round stoppage against Jermain Taylor. In fact, Abraham is the only one to have scored three points in that round because he got the extra point for the knockout. What kind of momentum do you think he has going into his second round fight with Andre Dirrell?
A: When Danny Sheridan did odds for this tournament, the renown sports analyst, and made Abraham a co-favorite, I was a little bit surprise only in that I thought Abraham was the second on the list to Kessler, pretty close to Kessler, but Danny was right and I’ve always thought Arthur Abraham was a handful. Since I first started watching him after the first (Edison) Miranda fight, I’ve always felt that Arthur Abraham was going to be difficult for Kelly Pavlik if they ever fought, and was hell on wheels in the middleweight division, and then when he came up and beat Edison Miranada in Florida, you got the impression on our air, you get the impression that at 168 he was going to be difficult. And Jermain Taylor fought some very good rounds in that fight, which you always do against Abraham. You can win rounds against Abraham. You can win the battle, but winning the war is tough.
He has two things that I think might be the best in boxing. He has the best chin, by far, of anybody in the sport of boxing. Secondly, he has the best shell-like defense, and I say “shell-like” because I’m not saying he’s a better defensive fighter than let’s say Floyd Mayweather or somebody, but for a shell-like defense that you can’t get to the body or the head, when he’s in that defensive posture it’s so hard to hit him. As Steve Farhood said, he fights offense and defense like a football team—he never fights both at the same time. So you try to hit him, he comes out of that defensive shell not just with one punch but with powerful combinations, so the trick is to beat Arthur Abraham, you have to box twelve perfect rounds in my opinion, because I don’t think you’re going to knock him out and you have to win a decision. Whoever wins this tournament it may come down to who can figure out the puzzle of Arthur Abraham.
Q: Speaking of that, do you think that Andre Dirrell, coming off what many consider a controversial loss against Carl Froch—Dirrell draws him next. Do you think Dirrell will have a chance to be successful against Arthur Abraham?
A: Well he does have a chance. Here’s the problem for Andre Dirrell. He fought almost the perfect fight against Carl Froch, for him. Remember, that was the first time he had ever faced a major opponent. He came into this tournament really with no world class experience. He really did. So on hostile territory at 2 o’clock in the morning, he fought almost the perfect fight against Froch. Had he been just a little more aggressive—now I had the fight scored a draw—had he been a little more aggressive, although apparently the judges had it 115-112, two of them, I guess. Maybe he needed more than a little more, but he just needed to throw more punches. Here’s the problem. He cannot be overly aggressive against Arthur Abraham.
Now the fight’s going to be in the United States so that will be a plus in terms of not having to travel and all the rest, but now he’s in a conundrum. He said to himself, “I fought the perfect kind of fight against Carl Froch”. He even hurt Froch once or twice, “I didn’t get the decision, so somebody’s not liking what I’m doing when I’m that kind of Andre Dirrell”. So does he fight the exact same fight, which is exactly what he needs to fight against Arthur Abraham, and let the chips fall where they may but just try and make sure he throws more punches? I say yes to that, but he may have some doubt in his mind as to whether he can do that and Abraham is the exact wrong fighter for him to be overly aggressive against, so it’s a conundrum. But does Andre Dirrell have the physical gifts to beat Arthur Abraham? Yes. Two fighters in this tournament have that kind of ability, and that’s him and Ward if they fight twelve perfect rounds.
Q: Going back to Carl Froch, as you noted earlier and I agree with you on this, he presents a different stylistic challenge for Kessler, and it’s one that I agree with you is much more favorable to Kessler, but there’s another aspect to all of this and it’s the psychological standpoint of the fighters. Carl Froch might well be the most confident guy in the tournament, and right now, Kessler—he is definitely not as confident as he would like to be at this stage given the upset he faced. Do you think that that could help carry Carl Froch to victory against Kessler?
A: Yeah, it really can. Now the fight will be in Denmark, and that’s good for Kessler. In boxing, obviously, the crowd can’t fight the fight for you, and it won’t hurt Froch. Froch will not be daunted by fighting in Denmark. He will not be daunted by that, but what it will do is give Kessler at least some warm fuzzy feelings and a lot of support that will boost his confidence a little. But you hit on it, Carl Froch is an utterly confident and some would say arrogant guy. And I like him, I enjoy being around him. I get a kick out of him, and he’s just a fascinating guy to listen to, but he does not believe he can lose and some of that is even, even if you want to say a little of it’s delusional like, he’ll look at that Dirrell fight and he’ll just say, “Oh I just out boxed him. I beat him at his own game, and why would anyone be shocked that I got the decision?” But that’s part of his whole demeanor and it serves him well, because he’s not thinking losing and he’s never lost as a pro. So I agree with you, that is the trump card for Carl Froch, that and the fact that he does hit with power. Now he never quite landed against Dirrell the way he should, but Kessler is a much more stationary target, can be hit certainly from time to time, and we’re going to find out if Carl Froch’s power gets to Kessler, who as you point out, clearly has some confidence issues.
Q: I’ve had the opportunity to speak to both Froch and Ward before their fights, and I actually spoke to Ward again after his fight, and one of the things Froch had said was with this whole American-European rivalry aspect of the tournament, Forch said that a lot of American fans are going to be disappointed because this is going to be an all-European final, and Andre Ward noted that this added fuel to his fire and gave him extra encouragement to go out there and win and he compared it to his time in the Olympics. As it turns out, Ward as it is now is slated to face two Americans the rest of the way. Do you think that Ward will ultimately get a chance to face one of those other Europeans, be it Froch himself or Abraham somewhere down the line?
A: Well, he probably will. Probably. If Andre Ward wins one more match he’s probably going to be in the semi-finals. I think four points will probably get you into the semi-finals, and if he does, there’s a good chance that he could meet either Forch or Abraham or maybe even Kessler again. If Kessler wins two matches in a row, he might be in the semi-finals and the way it’s seeded, you know, number one faces number four and they have all these tie-breaker things, I believe, to figure it out, and two faces three. So I think there’s a good chance that Andre Ward might face a European. It’s hard to tell. We’ll know a little better after round two. Now it’s really speculation, still.
I think there’s a good chance of that at some point, and listen, Ward could still not make the final four but he’s off to a very good start and because he fought so well, he’s already got two points. You have to say he has a very good chance. And I think the European-American aspect of this, while it wasn’t the whole thing that drove the tournament, this is a division that has been dominated for the most part by non-Americans, if you will. Europeans, and of course Lucian Bute made his case this last week, and he’s a very good 168 pounder. I don’t think the people all of a sudden coronated him the best in the division after that win even though I’m amazed he knocked out Librado Andarde, but let’s be honest, fighters like Andrade at a certain point in their career, you can point to Ray Mercer and there’s a few others. They have granite chins, but at some point, because they’ve taken so many punches all of a sudden that granite chin is not granite anymore, and that may be what happened to Andrade, but it was a great effort by Bute. But this division has been controlled for the most part by non-Americans, except for Jeff Lacy’s brief interlude and back in the day Frankie Lyles and a few people. So that part of it, I think, is an intriguing part of the tournament. It’s part of the fun of the tournament.
It’s not what it’s all about, and maybe I’ll use your column here as a chance to rebut. I very seldom talk about criticism or whatever, but there were just a couple of people who write on the internet who suggested that somehow we took a jingoistic approach to the commentary and the coverage of the fight, and I totally reject that. In fact it’s insulting. We’ve been desperately careful to cover these fights along the lines of boxing matches, and if there’s anything that I think is the hallmark of what we do at Showtime, it’s that we cover these matches viewing both fighters exactly the same and try very hard to showcase all of them and so we don’t see it, and I certainly don’t, as a battle between the American and the Europeans and somehow we’re rooting for Americans or we’re interested more in Americans. No. They’re all six fighters, they’re all in the tournament, they’re all interesting. I find them all interesting. I think they’re all intriguing guys and good fighters. So I don’t see the European-American thing as the main thing, but it spices this tournament and I can appreciate the fact, that especially when a Carl Forch makes that statement that it adds a fuel to the fire of Andre Ward.
Q: Al, on paper, going into the second round which fight do you think will provide the most exciting clash of styles for the fans?
A: There’s a couple of them that look interesting . Kessler-Froch to me has to either end in a knockout or be a brawl. I don’t know how else it can be anything else. Nobody in that fight is a mover. Kessler isn’t going to move around the ring much. Froch is going to attack him from the get go. So that one, I think, it will be a wild fight no matter what. The other two are very hard to predict because we assume Dirrell is going to box Arthur Abraham, which doesn’t mean it’s not going to be exciting because Abraham is going to get to him at some point, I think, and Dirrell—let me say this about Andre Dirrell. He showed some power against Froch. Froch we thought had an iron chin, right, and of course he didn’t go down but there were moments where Andre Dirrell hurt Carl Froch so maybe he can do something to at least stun Abraham. The third fight’s very tough because if it’s Taylor and Ward, I actually think that’s going to be a pretty interesting fight only because while Taylor does fight very much like the Europeans and it will be a struggle for him, I think, to adapt to all the different stylistic issues that Ward presents. He’s got quicker hands, I think, than Kessler and may be able to figure out a way to get some more punches in. So believe it or not, I actually think that could be pretty interesting as well.
Q: If Mikkel Kessler, the odds on favorite going into the tournament, is to comeback and actually win the tournament, do you think he needs somebody else to knock off Andre Ward?
A: Maybe he does. Can Mikkel Kessler do better against Andre Ward the next time? There’s two factors. One, Andre Ward is doing nothing but getting better and Andre Ward, by the time he faces Mikkel Kessler again, no matter what, will have two more fights under his belt. Let’s say he faced him in the semi-finals, he would have two more fights under his belt making him that much more experienced against top competition, and he only had his Edison Miranda fight as top competition coming into this tournament. That’s a negative for Kessler, but the positive is Kessler’s been there already. There were a few things, if he looks at that tape very carefully, that he did well but didn’t do enough of against Ward.
I think, believe it or not, one of the things you know he’s going to be doing and it depends on where that fight is held, Andre Ward was guilty of holding early in the fight, did not get a warning. There were the clashes of heads that they perceived as being intentional, whether they were or they weren’t. So he knows the two pitfalls first hand that he has to find a way around. You know they’re going to be working the officials on that. It would help Kessler, probably, if Andre Ward was defeated because the two trickiest people for him to fight in this tournament are Ward and Dirrell because of their movement and their style. Not to say the others can’t beat Kessler, but they present a more traditional challenge for him.
Q: For my final question Al, is there anything else you want to say to all the fans out at East Side Boxing?
A: No, just that—and I know you always ask that at the end of the interviews, and I love that—I really enjoy the coverage there and I love that your site is one that gives people really a chance to communicate very well with all the fans. The only thing I would say to them is I think this tournament is just going to continue to be fun. I appreciate the fact that most of the people that are viewing this tournament kind of are viewing it the right way. It’s going to have its ebbs, its flows, there are going to be some really good fights, some that are dominated, but they’re all going to be interesting and I think it’s going to be a really interesting fun event for boxing fans, and that’s what it was designed to be. That’s exactly what it’s supposed to be and I think it’s going to fulfill that.
Q: Great. Al, I want to thank you very much for your time and insight. I really appreciate it.
A: No problem at all, nice to talk to you.
