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Old 08-21-2017, 12:28 PM   #2341
Fucky McFuckerson
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plagiarizing fan theories? lmao that will happen.

Absolutely you have to blame GRRM. It was in contract pre-printed in 2007 he would be finished with the next book and at least an outline for final book by now. That's all on GRRM for not finishing shit.

You're asking the show writers to finish a massive fucking novel that's been in existence for over 20 years that even the actual author doesnt know how to finish, write the episodes and bring to film. At this point, if you haven't already, you have to separate the books and the show and just accept they are two completely separate entities. The books will be finished in the next 10-15 years, probably by a different author after GRRM dies, and the show is this epic production on the scale of something we've never seen before in television. Sure, there are some plot holes and it's not perfect, but it's still better than anything else we've seen before and has to fit neatly into television.
This.

Then again, i never read the books so whatevs.

Im not that crazy over the travelling issue.

Lets say it takes gendry a day to get to the wall (thats a ton of running and we dont know how deep they were).

Ravens fly fast, half a day to get to dany

...dragons fly much faster than ravens, so a few hours to the wall and then not much longer to them.

However, we dont HAVE distances to any of this shit. None. At least none that i can recall.
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:45 PM   #2342
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this was before this episode
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:36 PM   #2343
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this was before this episode
Which is fine since we know weeks/months can pass between scenes and are not all at the same time (a scene with Cersei could be weeks apart from a scene with Jon for example). The Nights King presumably is waiting for the winter to travel south or whatever the fuck. He's waited thousands of years.

Last episode was the first time I had a big issue. Which they could have made more believable if they simply added a scene of the crew camping over a fire, eating snow, etc to show time has past. Presumably takes two three days for water to turn to thick ice again. But still that's stretching it because of time it would take gendry to reach wall (let's say a day) for Raven to reach Danny (let's say it's fucking rocket speed and give it another day) and it would take another day for Danny to return on her dragon. So that's three days at minimum, more likely five. Doesnt make a lot of sense, unless dragonstone is a hell of a lot closer in the show than the books. Or the likely explanation is they went too Hollywood, math/physics be damned, which is what happened.

Still there was more good than bad from the episode and we learned a lot about the wights like how they were destroyed by killing their maker, which is a game changer. Also how they can communicate with each other or have some sense of instinct, so smarter than previously thought.

The episode overall was off the charts in production, again some big time movie shit. Just too bad they dropped the ball or didn't care to make the details add up better (again just adding a scene of a couple days passing would have made it a bit more believable, still not perfect but better).
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:51 PM   #2344
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Which is fine since we know weeks/months can pass between scenes and are not all at the same time (a scene with Cersei could be weeks apart from a scene with Jon for example). The Nights King presumably is waiting for the winter to travel south or whatever the fuck. He's waited thousands of years.

Last episode was the first time I had a big issue. Which they could have made more believable if they simply added a scene of the crew camping over a fire, eating snow, etc to show time has past. Presumably takes two three days for water to turn to thick ice again. But still that's stretching it because of time it would take gendry to reach wall (let's say a day) for Raven to reach Danny (let's say it's fucking rocket speed and give it another day) and it would take another day for Danny to return on her dragon. So that's three days at minimum, more likely five. Doesnt make a lot of sense, unless dragonstone is a hell of a lot closer in the show than the books. Or the likely explanation is they went too Hollywood, math/physics be damned, which is what happened.
No way a dragon takes a whole day to travel. I can buy both the bird and dragon reaching back to the North in a full day, its Gendry that is the issue here. IMHO.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:15 PM   #2345
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If the Night King is such an ace with the the ice javelin, he should have just picked off all the guys stuck on the rock for the 2-5 days they were sitting there like ducks on a pond.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:25 PM   #2346
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D&D being incompetent is fully on them. They have this huge established world & they give us shit dialog with plot holes galore. They should have gotten some outside help after season 5 but because of their ego we now have the walking dead with dragons. #cutthecrap


IMO there is clear distinction in the quality of the show from the time the books ended forward.

The book part was filled with great (unpredictable) shit like Ned Stark beheaded, Red Wedding, Oberyn Martell being crushed, etc.

After the books ended the show became a lot more predictable, ie main characters surviving very improbable scenarios rather than being killed.

Jon Snow should be dead x3. The whole trapped on a rock to be saved at the last possible second, only to be left, to be saved at the last possible second again, is just standard Hollywood BS and was absent through the first few seasons of the show (which is what made it great).
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:28 PM   #2347
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Still my second favorite show of all time (#1 in terms of production value), I just wish GRRM had finished the books so the show didn't regress to the mean when left on its own.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:29 PM   #2348
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If the Night King is such an ace with the the ice javelin, he should have just picked off all the guys stuck on the rock for the 2-5 days they were sitting there like ducks on a pond.
They could just move when they saw it coming. Smaller targets also way harder to hit. And we dont know how many he had.
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:08 PM   #2349
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whenever you notice something like that, a wizard did it
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:41 PM   #2350
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If the Night King is such an ace with the the ice javelin, he should have just picked off all the guys stuck on the rock for the 2-5 days they were sitting there like ducks on a pond.
Well there is a theory here which is that was a trap, so they could get a zombie dragon. Knight King is a greenseerer, or some kind of "seer" since he saw the three eyed crow numerous times and of course even touched Bran (which was when Bran was greenseeing in the past). So he can travel through time. If that's true then he could have seen John/crew and eventually Danny and her Dragons go North of the Wall. He brought the ice javelins specifically there, never had them before, not that I recall. He also didn't have to wait for the water to turn to ice, the weights could have just made a skeleton, ant-like ladder or bridge and the rest walk over them.

Seemed very much planned. Now maybe it's just a big plot hole, like the Arya/Waif where everyone was over analyzing everything, but to me it makes sense that he knew the dragons were coming. We won't know until later obviously though.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:49 PM   #2351
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IMO there is clear distinction in the quality of the show from the time the books ended forward.

The book part was filled with great (unpredictable) shit like Ned Stark beheaded, Red Wedding, Oberyn Martell being crushed, etc.

After the books ended the show became a lot more predictable, ie main characters surviving very improbable scenarios rather than being killed.

Jon Snow should be dead x3. The whole trapped on a rock to be saved at the last possible second, only to be left, to be saved at the last possible second again, is just standard Hollywood BS and was absent through the first few seasons of the show (which is what made it great).
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Still my second favorite show of all time (#1 in terms of production value), I just wish GRRM had finished the books so the show didn't regress to the mean when left on its own.
I've actually really dug this season, up until the plot holes in the previous episode. It's felt so nice not having to constantly compare the books to the show, what was different, what should have been different, what's still to come, etc. It's like the shackles of all that have been released and we can just focus on the show, nothing else. And I thought they were doing a pretty damn good job considering the final 13 episodes (yes, they've been closing up plot lines super fast, but all things considered it's been good). They've had some dope episodes, like the episode prior was one of my favorites, same with the episode before that.

They just got too Hollywood Blockbuster on this episode and ignored or refused to clean up the smaller details. Which to me is frustrating because it's easy to clean up - show the gang huddled together, maybe eat some of the Dead body to survive 5-7 days, maybe have a better reason weights can't cross the water, whatever. Done. Show Benjan Stark get a tip somehow right when the episode stsrts, like we see him tracking some snow and traveling north or wherever (following the crew), the viewer's would completely forget about that 30-60 second clip in the beginning of the episode with all the choas going on, so when he saves the say at least we saw a reason for him showing up. Easy shit like that could have fixed the majority of the plot holes. They just rushed it or fucked up in editing because again, the production for that episode was off the damn charts. The amount that went into that episode is crazy, so for minor shit like that to majorly affecting the episode is frustrating as hell. Could have been a top 10 episode of done a little differently.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:59 PM   #2352
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No way a dragon takes a whole day to travel. I can buy both the bird and dragon reaching back to the North in a full day, its Gendry that is the issue here. IMHO.
I'm no expert on dragon flight lol just throwing out some **reasonable*** numbers. But yes, Gendry was the biggest problem from that who scenario, the guy who never seen snow in his life makes it back in blizzard conditions through mountains in about a day. Again though, they could have made the whole thing more believable by spending a little more time with editing and adding a couple scenes. Fuck, they should have used Benjan for that - he picks up a nearly dead Gendry on his horse and takes him to the wall. Boom, done. They could have just never had Jon Almost die, but I understand why they did - the wanted us to show Danny's concern for her crush, and to see his scars, in particular the stab winds in his heart that she's been asking about. And that was a good scene when he said how about my queen and she is humbled by him, saying I hope to prove you worthy or whatever she said. Still though, he could have simply got fucked up by weights and still got on the dragon. No need for the scare tactics lol
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:03 PM   #2353
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there's def a different feel since the books have ended, it's true. it's easy to see how things are being rushed since the series is going to end soon (like, before, after bronn saved jamie from the dragon, the series would have spent at least an episode or two showing them making their way back to kings landing)

but ice dragons tho

ftw
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:57 AM   #2354
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this was before this episode
This doesnt give any distances though...thats what i was getting at.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:23 AM   #2355
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They could have just never had Jon Almost die, but I understand why they did - the wanted us to show Danny's concern for her crush, and to see his scars, in particular the stab winds in his heart that she's been asking about. And that was a good scene when he said how about my queen and she is humbled by him, saying I hope to prove you worthy or whatever she said. Still though, he could have simply got fucked up by weights and still got on the dragon. No need for the scare tactics lol


Exactly. While I thought the scene with Danny / Jon and his scars was great - there was a much better way to get to that scene. Without GRRM I feel like the show is using the Hollywood 101 playbook, which is silly because you have to think the writers and producers are smarter than that. I would bet my life savings that you and I could have come up with better material to get us to that Jon on the bed scene.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:35 AM   #2356
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I can get past a lot of this stuff. How do they travel so fast, how did Dany get back while they just chilled, how did 7 guys not get fucking murdered the minutes the white walkers started their second advance, where'd they get the chains, etc. Sloppy writing, maybe. But imagine trying to pack this entire "book" into 7 episodes. Which leads me to my main issue: WHY MAKE THIS 7 EPISODES IF YOU COULD EASILY HAVE EDITED THIS SHIT TO 8-10?
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Old 08-23-2017, 05:25 PM   #2357
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:08 AM   #2358
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I can get past a lot of this stuff. How do they travel so fast, how did Dany get back while they just chilled, how did 7 guys not get fucking murdered the minutes the white walkers started their second advance, where'd they get the chains, etc. Sloppy writing, maybe. But imagine trying to pack this entire "book" into 7 episodes. Which leads me to my main issue: WHY MAKE THIS 7 EPISODES IF YOU COULD EASILY HAVE EDITED THIS SHIT TO 8-10?

Amen man. I don't understand why they are ending the show at all, let alone trying to condense the season into 7 episodes. This is HBO's most successful show of all time, with lots of source material remaining.....yeah lets hurry up and wrap it up. WTF makes no sense and leads to the sloppiness described in the last few posts in this thread.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:36 AM   #2359
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I'm guessing HBO figures they can wrap it up and start one of the new stories for a lot cheaper with all of the ratings.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:47 AM   #2360
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I kinda respect that they didn't drag it out for money and ruin the series like with Dexter, Lost, Ninja Turtles and Back to the Future 3, etc. Series are better when there's a planned ending that's been foreshadowed since the first episode. Plus HBO has enough source material to milk Westeros with prequel stories while still wrapping up ASOIAF. I just think splitting the last book into two seasons is some cheap Hunger Games/Harry Potter shit.

I'd be totally fine with a spinoff series of Arya getting revenge for perceived slights. Like some dude accidentally cuts her off in traffic, and next think you know there's a faceless man standing behind him on the elevator.
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