North Dakota faces Oct. 1 deadline--change name and logo

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May 9, 2002
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GRAND FORKS, N.D. -- Brett Potas is so angry the University of North Dakota may drop its Fighting Sioux nickname that he's canceled his season hockey tickets and says he won't give his alma mater another dime.

"They tried to get me to think about it. I said that I've been thinking about it for years," Potas said. He says he doesn't want to be associated with a university that takes a politically correct position.

Lucy Ganje, an art professor who led protests against the name, said the school not only should drop its nickname and Indian head logo, it should also apologize to the Sioux tribes and the school's American Indian students.

The two views illustrate the passionately fought debate over the nickname that has nagged the school for years and could finally be resolved this fall. Unless the school gets the support of the state's two Sioux tribes by Oct. 1, which appears unlikely, the state Board of Higher Education says it must drop the nickname.

"One thing's for sure, the feelings run deep," athletic director Brian Faison said. "I'm sure there are other places where emotion has been attached to the logo, but here there's an intensity I've never experienced any place else."

UND teams have been known as the Fighting Sioux since 1930. Those who support the name echo the argument made by fans of other teams with American Indian mascots -- that it is part of the school's heritage and is a sign of respect that honors the Indians' proud traditions.

But critics argue that naming sports teams after Indians, a historically disenfranchised race of people, is demeaning, and even racist, and that the practice should stop because many tribes oppose it.

Just this month, the U.S. Supreme Court was asked to look into whether the Washington Redskins' name defames American Indians. A lower court ruled in favor of the NFL team.

The NCAA in 2005 listed 18 schools with American Indian mascots and images that it considered "hostile and abusive," and banned them from postseason play pending name changes. William and Mary was added in 2006. Some schools, like Florida State University (the Seminoles) and the University of Utah (the Utes), were allowed to keep their nicknames by getting permission from local tribes.

But most changed their nicknames, leaving UND as the lone holdout.

The state of North Dakota sued to block the NCAA stipulation, but it agreed in a 2007 settlement that the school would drop the name by 2010 unless it got the approval from the Standing Rock and Spirit Lake Sioux tribes. The Spirit Lake tribal council voted last week to allow the school to remain the Fighting Sioux, but the Standing Rock council has refused to give its approval.

UND hasn't settled on a new nickname should it abandon its Fighting Sioux moniker, Faison said. Any change would cost the school not only the support of some students, faculty and alumni, but in dollars as well.

When the university debated a nickname change in 2001, the late Ralph Engelstad, a former UND goalie who donated $100 million for the construction of an arena that bears his name, threatened to withhold funding if the nickname was changed. He died a year later, but not before helping get thousands of granite and metal Indian head logos put up throughout the building. Many would have to be removed -- a job arena manager Jody Hodgson said would cost about $1 million.

And a change would mean the end of one of the best-selling hockey jerseys in the country, said Joe Sheeley, who works for a company, the Licensing Resource Group, that handles UND's licensing program. He declined to give exact figures, but said sales of the Sioux jersey have increased in each of the last five years.

"If it's not the No. 1 seller in the hockey world, it definitely holds its own against the big-time programs," Sheeley said.

Faison said switching nicknames and logos would be "costly," but he declined to elaborate.

Other schools may force the university's hand. The University of Minnesota, a convenient Division I opponent because of its proximity, warned that it will only schedule games in hockey against UND if it keeps the Fighting Sioux name. Other schools have said they're reviewing their policies.

"The Minnesota thing is really a problem for a lot of our sports," Faison said.

Some UND students and graduates, including one very well-known former student, have urged the school to adopt a new nickname. Los Angeles Lakers coach Phil Jackson, returning to his alma mater to accept an honorary degree last year, urged UND to drop the name, saying the change could be made gracefully.

Students Sarah Molde, Chelsey Hill and Alison Spicer, three seniors studying social work, said they believe students will wear Fighting Sioux gear even if the name is changed. All of them want to see the logo stay.

"I'm one of them who is sick of the argument, I'm not going to lie," said Molde, from Bemidji, Minn. "If I could just sweep it under the rug, I would."


Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4500436
 
Jun 24, 2005
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lol



i say get over it and have the teams pay ur tribe some $$

shit make the LA WETBACKS and I wont be offended. people are to fucking sensitive now-a-days....my opinion anyways
 
Feb 14, 2004
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I would much rather have a name like Fighting Irish then a name like Redskins or Indians. And even the logo of Fighting Irish isn't as demeaning as the Indians logo. We don't fucking smile like that. We're stoic. So STFU asshole.
 
Feb 14, 2004
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North Dakota decisions end Fighting Sioux nickname

MAYVILLE, N.D. (AP)—A state Supreme Court ruling and a Board of Higher Education decision have retired for good the University of North Dakota’s Fighting Sioux nickname after a four-year legal battle.

The court ruled Thursday that the board had the authority to dump the nickname at any time. The court rejected an appeal that sought to delay action.

A motion later Thursday at the board’s regularly scheduled meeting in Mayville to reconsider its vote in May to retire the nickname died after nobody seconded it.

Claus Lembke, the board member who made the failed motion, said the board was “giving in to a minority of people on the issue.”

Board president Richie Smith had said before the vote that he thought no further action was required to retire the nickname.

Board member and university alumnus Grant Shaft said afterward that he believes most people are tired of the controversy.

“I think people have moved to the point, for a number of reasons, that they wanted this to move along,” Shaft said.

UND President Robert Kelley, who was hired in part to help the school in its transition from Division II to Division I athletics, said he’s looking forward to managing the nickname transition.

“It’s hard sitting on your hands waiting for a deliberate process to run its course, not knowing what the outcome would be,” Kelley said after the board meeting. “Now that we have a decision from the state board, we can move ahead.”

In their ruling, the justices said the board had the authority to change the nickname before a Nov. 30 deadline set in a settlement with the NCAA. A group of eight Spirit Lake Sioux tribal members who want the school to keep the nickname were seeking to have the court bar any decision before the deadline.

The state Supreme Court said nothing in the settlement prevents the board from making a decision before the deadline.

Supporters believe the logo shows pride and tradition.

But the NCAA considers the nickname “hostile and offensive” and said UND cannot host postseason events without approval from the state’s two Sioux tribes. Under the settlement, the board and UND agreed to begin retiring the nickname if they couldn’t obtain permission from the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock Sioux tribes by Nov. 30.

Spirit Lake tribal members have voted to support the nickname, but the Standing Rock tribal council has resisted calls for it to change its bylaws to allow a vote on the issue.

A district judge dismissed the Spirit Lake members’ lawsuit in December. The state Supreme Court agreed to hear an expedited appeal after UND officials pleaded with the board to decide the issue quickly so the school could pursue admission to the Summit League.

Summit League president Tom Douple has said UND won’t be considered for admission until the school finds a solution that makes the NCAA happy.

The Spirit Lake members’ attorney, Patrick Morley, didn’t return a call Thursday seeking comment.

Shaft said he doesn’t think it’ll make a difference if Standing Rock decides to support the logo.

“With the makeup of the board right now, I don’t think we have the opportunity to bring it back for reconsideration,” Shaft said.

Associated Press writers Dale Wetzel and Blake Nicholson in Bismarck contributed to this story.

On the Net:

North Dakota Supreme Court ruling: http://tinyurl.com/yecfkbe

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=AjO8I7KAMA9IXDeJU6EdYsM5nYcB?slug=ap-siouxnickname
 
Jan 28, 2005
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I would much rather have a name like Fighting Irish then a name like Redskins or Indians. And even the logo of Fighting Irish isn't as demeaning as the Indians logo. We don't fucking smile like that. We're stoic. So STFU asshole.
So let me get this straight...


you're Native American, and apparently really pissed about schools naming themselves after Native American tribes...


but your siccness name is "savage" and your avatar is a screaming skull wearing feathers on its head.


Way to spearhead the movement against cultural and ethnic stereotypes.
 
Jan 28, 2005
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well said killa clown.

this is so stupid...so "fighting irish" isnt stereotypical? So its cool to call them sloppy drunks pretty much. Awesome.

and with that said GO CHIEFS!
I don't understand the shit either. Fighting Irish is extremely stereotypical, and just as "racist" as any Native American named school.

I also don't see the racism in naming an educational institution's mascot after a Native American tribe.

Its like saying "Oh, we've just founded this school of higher learning, that cost us lots of money and will cost you lots of money to attend; intended to educate our citizens... so we're going to name it after a people we hate in our best attempt to defame their character"

no... you name your schools after something that embodies the spirit you're trying to capture for your students.
 
Jan 28, 2005
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I would much rather have a name like Fighting Irish then a name like Redskins or Indians. And even the logo of Fighting Irish isn't as demeaning as the Indians logo. We don't fucking smile like that. We're stoic. So STFU asshole.
you know I did a research paper on India, part of which involved my reading about Christians looking to convert both Indians (*Hindu's) and Native Americans away from their polytheistic religions and become Catholics... and nowhere in any of what I read was there anything relating to Native Americans studying Stoicism, Aristotle, Plato, Rome, or Philosophy in general.

Come to think of it, I'm sort of pissed about that Cleveland Indians logo myself. I want to see a greasy haired smelly guy with a thick mustache wearing a shiny button up shirt as their logo FROM NOW ON!

*People of the land "Hindustan" (not necessarily the religion), which was partitioned into Pakistan and India circa 1947.
 
Feb 14, 2004
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So let me get this straight...


you're Native American, and apparently really pissed about schools naming themselves after Native American tribes...


but your siccness name is "savage" and your avatar is a screaming skull wearing feathers on its head.


Way to spearhead the movement against cultural and ethnic stereotypes.
Yes I'm Native, and no I'm not, "really pissed", about the schools naming themselves after Native tribes. Hell the tribes aren't even pissed either. They aren't pushing for the name change, the NCAA is. The, "Indians", name I don't care about, it's the logo. I'm not, "really pissed", about the logo, but I just don't like it. The Atlanta Braves logo is cool, The Chiefs logo is cool. The Black Hawks logo is cool. The Indians is not. Get the picture?

What does my name and avatar have to do with what I said?

If you must know, I chose, "savage", because that's what I am. I can change it to Native if it'll make you sleep better at night LOL And my avatar, well I don't see anything demeaning about it at all. It's just a skull with a warbonnet on it. Looks savagely cool if you ask me.
 
Feb 14, 2004
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you know I did a research paper on India, part of which involved my reading about Christians looking to convert both Indians (*Hindu's) and Native Americans away from their polytheistic religions and become Catholics... and nowhere in any of what I read was there anything relating to Native Americans studying Stoicism, Aristotle, Plato, Rome, or Philosophy in general.

Come to think of it, I'm sort of pissed about that Cleveland Indians logo myself. I want to see a greasy haired smelly guy with a thick mustache wearing a shiny button up shirt as their logo FROM NOW ON!

*People of the land "Hindustan" (not necessarily the religion), which was partitioned into Pakistan and India circa 1947.
This is what I meant by being stoic. This is Chief Joseph being stoic, not having a shit eating grin with big ass teeth showing:



And since you took a shot at my people, I'll take a shot at yours. Have the fighting irsh logo be a white face with a scruffy looking beard with a tooth missing and hair all over the place with some flies flying around the head.
 
Jan 28, 2005
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This is what I meant by being stoic. This is Chief Joseph being stoic, not having a shit eating grin with big ass teeth showing:



And since you took a shot at my people, I'll take a shot at yours. Have the fighting irsh logo be a white face with a scruffy looking beard with a tooth missing and hair all over the place with some flies flying around the head.
where did I take a shot at your people?

...and I'm not Irish. Although I do occasionally get trashed off Jameson and throw potatoes at people while having sex with redheaded girls


...some nights I end up just having sex with the potatoes though, crying into my pot of gold about how I don't have any friends.
 
Feb 14, 2004
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where did I take a shot at your people?

...and I'm not Irish. Although I do occasionally get trashed off Jameson and throw potatoes at people while having sex with redheaded girls


...some nights I end up just having sex with the potatoes though, crying into my pot of gold about how I don't have any friends.
Yeah you meant the other "Indians". Went over my head.